On this episode, Caleb Van Vooren discusses the nature of PTSD and his personal experience with it.

DSM-5 Criteria for PTSD
https://www.professional-counselling.com/support-files/dsm5-ptsd-symptoms.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2Mp7cwO_ySKTrFf6T_8lzbLVU4hhlyl8y8uE-eWdwE0FfBE3ATV1pzaCQ

 

Machine Transcript

[0:44] Oh hey,
hey hey hey good morning hey we are live Facebook hate which hey everyone who might be listening to this after the fact that this is me Kayla,
I can been born host of the overcoming podcast year here was my podcast Network.

[1:09] I don’t know how to work.
Cash out of Sunday sounds like a like you’re about to roll a fifth century China.
That’s a good century,
of all the single-digit centuries I think of this country has to be the best wasn’t bad but yeah you’re right I got to go with v,
that really really the 14th century has to take the cake as far as looks like teens Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales.
Legendary Halo The Miller’s tale medieval stuff could be so dirty exactly maybe those are crazy dirty.

[2:06] Besides the Puritans of screwed up Yelp.

[2:18] Sunset so we are here it is Sunday November 11th and so that’s going to be Veterans Day,
or globally more commonly referred to as specially in Europe as Armistice Day to Mark the end of World War 1 we actually a hundred years,
today from the end of World War 1 which is a really an amazing thing,
I’m at that a hundred years ago we ended what was supposed to be the war to end all wars called that work out right,
sorry us subordinates into a kind of what we are going to talk about today which is some pretty cool stuff.

[3:02] Relation to me on my journey over the past that 6 weeks as well as I’ll has 12 years and then also something a lot of our veterans face and Lorenz have a struggle,
I’m trying this podcast is all about overcoming struggle so just some quick housekeeping things.
Knock it out of the way before we can dive into the main of the contest here.
You just joining us for the first time he has a kind of a czar second episode on this kind of relaunch is what Titan TV episode I think 17 or 18 I was kind of relaunched only fresh face and so on,
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[4:02] And a bonus I wasn’t having a future so take advantage of them for free while you can cuz there’s some really good content in there are not a lot of really great people.

[4:11] Time to officially I have a website now overcoming podcast. Com really exciting,
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[5:38] PSO twitch.tv / Sioux Empire for all that fun beautiful stuff so be sure to like follow subscribe do all that fun stuff and all those channels.
Is give me some pretty cool content in the in the next few weeks few months and years hopefully see if we can win some awards me going to Robert there you go being sliding.
Yeah so now I’m kind of a dive into a kind of the meat of the podcast so.
Has been a really tough topic for me over the past couple of years it’s been something I’ve dealt with your kind of throughout most most of my life since he has probably around 9 or 10.
Translate I took a really long time to come to terms,
isn’t that a lot of my my friends have had to come to terms with my friends with pretty good and yes several vibrancy of had to,
controls the same thing which is mostly calling about PTSD or post-traumatic stress disorder.

[6:50] Yeah this is only on. It’s kind of really do to my heart because it’s something that’s been calling me back for a really long time.
And I and I didn’t realize that it was for the longest time PTSD need to me has always been this something that they have to go through something really really big dramatic violent event to experience,
popular culture it was one just not talked about.
For the longest time and then when it was it was always this this immediate.
Can you flash back to you to one very clear specific event all the time and you ain’t in it always kind of describe the reactions to PTSD in a very kind of like small way.
And answer the longest time I didn’t think that I had PTSD.

[7:42] Pause for dramatic effect,
as an aside it’s always weird when you’re talkin kind of see yourself in a room like this and an awesome unit you go,
darkest little dry so you go take a drink and I’ll send you knows the exactly how quiet it is sitting there waiting for you to finish drinking.
I’m not sure it will ever not seem weird and awkward you’ll get there eventually eventually you’re just like doing laundry on camera and you just don’t
Carrie don’t notice it she’s just full Real Housewives webcam in the 90s with at Palladium in the apartment just let it
webcam / like constellations like the first person to do that so it’s just like supermundane constantly I don’t remember which one that one,
it was cold for me but there was an NPR thing about it LOL.

[8:48] So but what I just did there is actually a unwillingly is a symptom of PTSD.
It’s only when it comes along guy that I was really really big one which is that whistling call avoidance and and you may not realize you’re doing it,
it a lot of times over time it becomes a bit ingrained that when you.
When you begin to think about talk about or get in any sort of environment that begins to remind you of your trauma.

[9:20] You automatically be in to avoid it because you don’t want to experience those emotions you want to experience that pain you are experiencing suffering anymore and so you have just learned that I’m if I avoid these things.
Completely then I doubt they now feel that pain anymore.
Which is what I did for a really long time to the point in which I did no longer realize I was doing it,
play and so we’ll talk a little bit kind of about my trauma and then what kind of go into how I accepted the fact that I do have PTSD and have been now I’m going to treatment for a fair pass past few weeks,
extremely extremely difficult treatment not going to sugar-coat that at all for anyone who might he might look at getting it I it is not an easy thing to do.
Holy holy worthwhile.
For me this week I would be a step forward because I should be able to talk about my trauma if I got all teary-eyed.
Black my apologies in advance something that happens but for me.

[10:37] You know how I am I always had a.

[10:41] I said I’ve been a rocky relationship with my father as some would say my father is actually my step father and my biological father was a really a part of my life,
can my mom amicably split ways right before or shortly after I was born I was kind of realize that they weren’t going to be a good match for each other,
letting you know he was right, you provided me health insurance for my whole life up until a little after bit I turned 18 which for someone who suffers from genetic disease.
And and I was undergoing annual treatment for that disease that was a big big big lifesaver,
for me and so I guess I’m eternally internally grateful to my biological father for that even though I,
had no memory of ever meeting him I know he’s had a big impact on my life being as healthy as it is today.
So I’m very thankful them for that but,
what then happen is that my mom met a man sister and so that man,
is I is a man which I referred to as my father only because he,
is Lauryn Hill I I simply consider the one who raised me that may not have come from his blood but he’s my father in all aspects about that.

[12:09] But I was always kind of a rocky relationship in the sense that we just weren’t really interested in the same things and I really felt like I belong in Arizona you wanted me around.
Turn on reasons and I and I can go to detail for 4 hours upon hours 1 hours phone while it is,
invite but that doesn’t doesn’t need to PTSD doesn’t lead to abuse just leads to a somewhat unhealthy relationship
the other than that it’s like I’m millions of people have experience in their lives not quite getting along with one of their parents because they they just aren’t interested in the same thing that’s that’s perfectly okay that doesn’t,
that’s something that was a.

[12:57] Incredibly I know terrible twos. Some even though like it can be something that you have to struggle and move past.

[13:06] When it kind of turn to abuse it was when my father intentionally began seal.
Tell me things such as I am worthless begin to tell me that I would never succeed in anything.
I began to IV push me around challenge me try to get me to fight him throw me up against walls.
Skytrail Aegis continually night after night after night berate me about what I was doing or what I wasn’t doing kind of whatever I did.
Will never be good enough and it was quite painful.
Both physically and emotionally that is something that I really really struggle with.
It was something that I could not.
Charlie deal with it for the longest time I recognize that this was hard.
But I began to judge it I began to describe it as oh well who doesn’t get in arguments with their parents.
Right what’s what father doesn’t yell at their son and it what.

[14:19] Yao Wang it’s just boys eating boys any kind of rough house around a little bit.
Alright despite the fact that if I would ever describe to someone a just non partially a father throwing their son out,
that 14 year old son out into the lawn in the middle of February and chasing him around begging him to fight him to prove that he’s a man.
Effective parenting that.
NC like oh hey that’s awful but for me that was what normal was.
And so I could never because that’s what my daily life was like.
For upwards of 12 years I could not fathom that anyone else lived a life different than mine.
Play the life is apparently I did not do that to them.
And if you came really really hard for me to recognize the trauma that this really was for me.

[15:23] But what did he going to happen is very understanding some of the symptoms of PTSD
I want. My teens man and Link teens I was incredibly reckless driving from driving quickly driving erratically,
Erie substance abuse as well as just that.
Self-harming Behavior lots of things associated with with trying to avoid pain and trying to feel in control.
I also began to stop doing the things that I love to do I stop playing video games because they would remind me of the times when my father yelled at me right I stopped reading something that I was incredibly passionate about because.

[16:12] And it would suddenly begin to remind me of the fact that my father thought I was a loser because I liked books,
and that there are all these things in my life that begin to stop doing,
diving into a void because even in subtle little ways they began to remind me of the abuse at suffering.
And that I recognize that I just began to say oh I’m getting older and so now I just don’t want to do these things anymore right and so the and 1/2 in is when I think about reading a book,
I’ll send it start to talk about about reading books but then it stopped reading them.
Right I build myself up but then I have to go find and do something else because.

[17:03] I told myself this is what I would rather be doing and I started to stop going home.
Right to the place where I grew up I started to stop visiting towns where I knew I might run into my father I started to stop communicating with my father side of the family.
Tom Kelly because nothing they did because they’re amazing and wonderful and I love them but because I might have to deal with.

[17:33] Some of them much more intentional decisions than others.
But throughout all of that I never really going to recognize the subtle things.
What happened to me which is one of the reasons that I would tend to struggle so much when I came against success,
which laces can’t be a hundred percent volume two on my father and her but the trauma after it is a very large part of it where is this idea that whenever I would begin to approach succeeding at something bad,
that was important to me that was challenging I would all the sudden begin to panic I begin to doubt whether I would ever be able to really succeed at it.
And so I just gave up because it’s better to fail on my own terms then to fail at having done it better to give out then to fail it is essentially,
Mantra and I didn’t realize that it was doing this for longest time I’ve been told probably around this past August where I was working asking for a client,
and I had over a month to get it done as a really big project I just kept putting it off and putting it off and putting it off.
And the beginning just accept the fact that I was going to fail because I’m a failure not because I didn’t do the work.

[18:51] And I talk to my therapist about this and we talked about and my therapist as well,
well versed in some of the things I experience of my father and how negative that have been in my life that’s only mad in general I don’t talk about very freely but because it was pretty is pretty hard for me.
She said hey you have PTSD and I’m just like what no I don’t that’s not something that that I thought I didn’t go to war I wasn’t like a salted right how could I possibly have PTSD.
Come & Sons play said this is as the Veterans Day episode and I’m friends with the vet several veterans.
See I am currently working with one eye while I’m working to several at my day job I’ve been in my business I’m working with one as well as I previously interview to veteran,
I’m on the Shelf as one of it in one of our Legacy episodes Raymond camper good friend of mine,
you want to buy a former roommates husband is also a veteran.
And most of them out I now suffer from some form of PTSD but almost none of them recognize what they do and are willing to see treatment for it.

[20:03] Which isn’t meant to be a judgment on them it’s more meant to be to recognize that this is something that’s very pretty.
Pervasive in our society now I’m not only amongst veterans but also amongst just the general population from an effective parenting to,
two sexual assaults on women right but don’t briefs you know the popular version of of rape Ryan but just.

[20:31] I just the other constant harassment and it makes me smile eyes because of the way they look or any number of other things that you are experiencing that are actually real traumas and I lives,
that I can me to post traumatic stress disorder especially if not,
that was appropriately and are very difficult to then,
if I live lies to their fullest it’s not a lot of people struggling and it’s something that I struggled with and I can recognize until,
therapist gave me a it was on this exact one as pretty somewhere though laid out what’s the DSM-5 criteria for PTSD,
preface this by I’m a therapist or counselor I’m not licensing anyway I cannot diagnose any,
one person with PTSD I do not have the qualifications to do that so please don’t think that I am I only accept my own diagnosis as well as I,
as in this case I need to begin to describe.

[21:37] Time some of the diagnostic criteria for PTSD.
A link to this object the diagnostic criteria will be available on our show notes,
so if you are someone who may be here some of the symptoms of Wonders hey might I fit the criteria for being 4 for having PTSD should I maybe consider seeking help,
this will be available for you to go ahead and look,
SI a separate time and I’m in in the final show now so I will probably also get past some links to some places some resources for you to be able to find a therapist and seek help,
yeah cuz you may even if your vet how you may not want to go to the VA,
Ryan if you’re not event there are plenty of other amazing resources out there for you and so I’ll work on tracking some of those down and getting them available or notes.
There are hooks can you separate I Nova.

[22:39] Diagnostic criteria for for PTSD right and I’ll go through a couple of them right now right,
this one listens as like a tanning ABCD and there’s an e f g h i that’s awesome you need to meet all do you have some form of PTSD,
did you meet all they said I can’t diagnose you but I would,
highly suggest that you likely have PTSD and should seek help,
no judgement there I just I want you to live the best most happy life that you can so.
Honey I’m here I Criterion a would be.
In this case is kind of your stressor right so so what will be the thing that causes the PTSD in this case it would be there a direct exposure.
To the stressor right and so the Skyview here suppose to death friend death actual friend Serious injury or actual turns sexual violence.
Or a severe emotional abuse siswi in the direct exposure witnessing that in person you always have to be the.

[23:58] Youngest have to be the the subject of an abuse or trauma to be affected by it things somewhat just that witnessing a deadly car accident,
could be incredibly traumatic,
Italian directory indirectly even buy a learning save a close relative very close friend was it supposed to trauma the event evolve actually his friend at the mess I’ve been buying.
Violent or accidental I need to stop or I repeat are streaming direct exposure to adverse details of,
are the event using the course of professional duties as has this might be First Responders and collecting body parts professionals reviews what’s the details of child abuse,
this is not included direct non-professional exposure to electronic media television movies or pictures it’s unlikely you could ever you would develop PTSD due to watching movies.

[24:57] Just just in case you’re wondering like that don’t go don’t go telling your kids so they can’t watch A Game of Thrones because you’re going to get a PTSD is unlikely that would be the cause.

[25:09] I meant that there’s a couple of things here.
Criterion being Franciscan be so intrusion symptoms technically only one of these is required for you to be in to be on the steps to being diagnosed with with PTSD,
hey Robert pull that up on the screen there a guy with amazing about having type person as an aside when I came under the Sioux Empire podcast.
Feel the house support while you’re doing stuff especially stuff that’s hard to talk about is is invaluable and I greatly appreciate it.
I also thank you very much I say all these cuz only one of them is required but you may experience all of them.
Which laser sound like you don’t feel like you have to experience only one and I give you experiencing more than one somehow that means you’re wrong.

[26:08] But for example of recurrent involuntary intrusive memories.

[26:15] So obviously we don’t need to care about the notes about children right but this is something that I know.
Travel experience quite often minor things would also make me go back to life like moments of being screamed at by my father laying in and I know better and see why all the sudden they might hear.

[26:40] Tina my hair car backfire as soon as similar Nelson there they can sue memories of time on the battlefield.
Can you pretty pretty big things,
new track nightmares dissociative reactions this is another common one that people eyes think they must experience but they don’t actually have to write but this is kind of where you are you can leave your body and I’ll send your back in the moment,
skiing flashbacks as pretty big pretty big on it it happens to me if I like Asian not very often It generally goes into the memories for me but but always going to be,
how to make bacon on Criterion C is a really really big one this is one that most people.

[27:25] Like I said as I can talk about before this is really really big symptom of PTSD is in the bed if you’re doing and relation to a trauma you very likely have PTSD.
But it’s avoidance right so you’re avoiding Charlie thoughts or feelings and trauma-related external reminders people places conversations activities objects or situations and or all of the above making me pretty.
Pretty Bang,
an avoidance is a really really big key and you’ll probably experience both or one but you will definitely be avoiding things in for not fully aware of it Canada now to Criterion D-
alterations in cognitions and mood right.

[28:11] And so I just might be you can’t kind of when your memories begin to feel fuzzy riding ability recall key features of a traumatic event.
Persistent and often sword native Lisa expectations about 1 cells.
Is one that I’m going to talk about a little bit I’m only cuz something that that I experienced a lot and lot of victims victims of childhood abuse,
experience which is a a lot of real big native feelings because,
for me like I said it is it was prolonged abuse it is 12 years of just prolonging abuse day after day week after week and we’ll mostly realizes that.
What because it happened is even though those things may not be true.
You begin to believe them even if you can fax really and rationally set back and say that they aren’t true.
Right yeah I can I can step back and say I’m not a failure.
Because I know I have succeeded at things right but if I were you were to really ask me to act to ask me if I believe that.
I wouldn’t be able to tell you that I know like I know I’m not but I believe I am.

[29:26] And that’s something that I’m working through therapy right now to try to overcome but it’s.
It’s amazing how much these beliefs can be deeply ingrained in you like just the.

[29:41] How much they can negatively impact your life like I don’t want anyone to ever have to deal with that long term because it is such such.

[29:51] Play a nightmare to kind of the kind of begin to push through because kind of matter what one if those beliefs are deeply held inside of you and you don’t go through the work to overcome them and,
can I Crush those beliefs and then they will hold you back from achieving what you want to do in your life.
You might not realize it right but there will be a lot of things in your life that you don’t do because of those beliefs.
And if you’re okay with that then then then okay.
But I don’t think most people are okay giving up on their dreams just because of what someone might have said to them when they were 13.
And so on if you experiencing that or any of these other symptoms.
Skip please place it begin to reach out and see some help there’s other ones here you’ll Mark Tomatoes interests and preach Maxine if activities this one was tough for me to be on the recognized.
If you suffered a prolonged abuse because what you may realize that you enjoyed these things while the abuse is going on.
Because I kind of your skate there a way for you to.
I’m too kind of deal with the abuse I guess that the trauma that you were suffering but then after the fact has the smelliest thing you enjoyed pre trauma Raven Allison because it helps you get through the trauma.

[31:16] Post trauma you don’t you don’t do them anymore because they remind you of the trauma.

[31:22] This is it for me though the other reading riotous forces gaming it was a lot of things that I used to get me through my trauma.
I also nice once I kind of separated myself from it for a little bit I’ll send I wasn’t interested in doing these things anymore.

[31:41] Which is pretty big deal from.
Laying alterations in arousal and activity.
The reactivity so just kind of odd when you start to experience a lot more irritable or aggressive may be self-destructive a Reckless Behavior in might become hyper vigilant.
Particularly when you might be exposed to something that reminds you of your trauma not going to name names but there is an individual on my work.
Deeply resembles my father answer no fault of his own I cannot help it feel terrified and hyper-vigilant when he is around,
and sell hyper-vigilance might be the need to constantly know where a person or thing is in a room this maybe,
Stevenson might be best described as if you’re particularly afraid of a spider and air it a type of insect.

[32:41] I just as idea that I’ll send you notice one and you have to track it.

[32:46] Because it’s the concept that at that it might it might come get me but if I know where it is and I can avoid it.
Yeah I’m a very very simplistic tormentine a little playful one that most people experience as that idea that a spider.
Scarcely follow me around and tell you can kind of get out of this vicinity the really big thing but I can also manifest and when you’re in a location.
Maybe I mean you can you maybe your trauma occurs in a grocery store Fielder from those lines and so you enter that location.
I’m kind of against your better your better judgement and avoidance behavior you may become hyper-vigilant and begin to vary.

[33:33] And I trust me it is very exhausting to have to constantly keep an eye out for a threat that probably isn’t there yet hyper-vigilance is not good for your blood pressure or for you no other,
other health conditions like your current cardiac system your.

[33:51] It’s just not good in general now it is definitely not sure that’s what I was trying to pick up your blood pressure,
that’s only because I feel something against that tighten your curls a levels.

[34:03] GNC in the heart rate gallon blood pressure Rising cuz who knows you might be attacked at any moment that have to sleep.
I make a little bit of a joke of that but it’s very very real and.
A lot of people by Alison smile a little bit at that probably doesn’t make them a little uncomfortable to think about the fact that I hate I do experienced that,
any licenses I feel a little bit hard to listen to kind of all of these but,
are you being to realize is that.

[34:37] A lot more people I think then they realize have PTSD in one form or another that is holding the back of their lives.
And so I pretty enough right so we’re kind of a through kind of the main symptoms right but I pretty enough is duration.
Selfridge really be a post-traumatic stress disorder and I kind of intermediate trauma reaction this for greater than a month.

[35:08] And then Christian G functional swim against significant Central related to stress or functional impairment right don’t treat that as something bigger than it has to be.
Do you like I said I can’t play Dynasty but it doesn’t have to be that I all the sudden you can’t get a job,
or you can’t go to go to the store,
what’s Annabelle’s lines because of this you know you could just be as something as simple as I have to take to take a nap after 30 minutes
route to work because the most direct route takes me by the building where my,
abuser works and I can’t get that close to even though I would never see him interact with him just driving by would be too much for me or,
you know I can’t go home and see friends and family because if I’m anywhere in the same town as where that trauma took place I can’t do it.

[36:13] Right I said a hey can be.

[36:17] If it’s holding you back from experience in your life or if you mean some of the words does persistent beliefs I talked about like for me where I talked about the fact that I would often fail at things because I believe that was a failure and so I quit.
Then I wouldn’t put the work in in and succeed where I knew were larger than you I could 16 because emotionally I believed I was a failure in so it would become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Write that in of itself is something that,
shows PTSD that needs to be treated you will likely you will likely suffer from multiples of these but you do not need to,
and so don’t make so functional significance does not have to be some giant big amazing thing that you know that kind of Hollywood and Things by Nature have made it out to me it can be something relatively.

[37:09] I don’t know what to say minor because of major to you but it runs really simple and then a kind of the.

[37:19] Nas last cartoon is attribution you want to make sure that the other things that you’re experiencing can’t be attributed to a medication substance abuse or other illness that you’re that you’re suffering from.
Lisa if you want to make sure that you’re not experiencing this something that’s because I you just took meth
for shrooms in your on a super bad trip
you know you want to make sure that that whatever you’re experiencing this with is associate to an actual event or trauma that you’ve experienced not necessarily an illness or.
Sailing lessons in your life I but don’t get me wrong I suffering from cancer and having survived it can be a trauma.
Right when it says illness what that means is that you’re not having a free sample of brain tumor that’s causing dissociative episodes and hypervigilance and things of that nature by putting pressure on the brain as a pet.
But having survived a brain surgery right can be a drama I am just for kind of those differing.

[38:34] Different little eyes.
Yeah that’s uncle right now cuz I just talked about a lot so you might notice even though I’m experiencing the symptoms of PTSD which is,
besides trying to grab onto things a little bit further little hyper-vigilant at the moment.
Because it the other remind because talking about it obviously puts me back in the place in which I experience that trauma.
Right which makes you begin to experience the symptoms of fear the symptoms of wanting to avoid are the symptoms of of feeling unsafe,
I’m having to look around the room and make sure that,
God forbid my father doesn’t walk through the wall behind that TV screen however rational that sounds I can feel that fear being realized and so.

[39:31] May I come and reach out you know cuz this is a really.

[39:35] Compression day for this because I’m PTSD something that affects a lot of people and leaves leads to a lot of suicides,
I’ll let me to depression and anxiety and this feeling that no matter what you do you’ll never be able to escape the drama that you experience and so the only solution right now and cough medicine messages that you have a stand your life and down.
And Veteran suicide is an epidemic in this country I’m suicide in general is an epidemic in this country to something that is vastly underreported Vaseline or talked about.
It’s only that you know I have I made at least five several times my life.

[40:17] And I think we have failed at each other but they were all very serious in any one of them could have succeeded and we’re glad you’re still here.
Thank you brother.
And in this is kind of why I started this podcast in the first place right which is the ability to talk to about your struggle and how you overcame it.
And.
Laying thoughts of suicide and depression and kind of the trauma that can often lead to them I really really serious things that need to be treated seriously and need to talk to I need to eat understand if that’s okay,
that you don’t need to judge your symptoms yet needs to judge your experience and seek the help and see how because,
there’s nothing that you’ve experienced I can’t be overcome and I can’t be treated.

[41:09] Come all the way can be probably treated very well and very effectively.
You know Gary V kind of talks about this a little bit in regards to business entrepreneurship right but it applies to every other aspect of light specifically this which is.
If anybody else had if anybody else has succeeded in that looks like you then you can do it too.
Right it’s this idea that right you know if I.

[41:40] The black kid from Detroit manages managed to build a business and get out right and you’re like it from Detroit then you can do it too.
As cigarette left your white Farm Boy from a from Iowa.
Right now you want to be a pro NFL player and that he did right then well then you can to anyone who looks like you did it then you can do it.

[42:05] And I can guarantee you that if it count when it comes to PTSD and overcoming PTSD and overcoming depression and finding happiness someone who looks exactly like you who experience the things that use variance.
And that means that you can to even if it doesn’t always feel like it so that’s kind of it for today.
Something to talk about but this is amazing so this is been the overcoming podcast as me killed in Warren,
Emperor mailing the Sioux Empire podcast,
I’ll be sure to like fall subscribe on all irrelevant platforms that’s Facebook as the overcoming podcast will give in foreign now so I will probably go to the YouTube channel,
in a couple of weeks right but that’s also the overcoming podcast okay then we are on Twitter at overcoming PC Instagram at overcoming keesee,
you can email me at overcoming PC at gmail.com the website will be coming soon I’ll be coming podcast.com and be sure to check out our Network so that’s the Sioux Empire podcast,
write sell Facebook right there at Empire podcast twitch.tv / Sioux Empire Facebook.

[43:22] Flash.
But that was what was just up Facebook Twitter to Empire empire can ever take us on Twitter,
appropriately so dancing Twitter is podcast on fire Hoosier check out all of those like fall subscribe share do all that fun stuff that’s really amazing things on the network.

[43:48] That everyone else can look at any other talk to you one time I think you covered it awesome so good to guess we’re just going to text you all thanks everybody.

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