Macabre Grimoire Chapter 9 Near Death Experiences

Macabre Grimoire Chapter 9 Near Death Experiences
Hosts Ari Show, Robert Mehling, and Travis Nye
Produced by Robert Mehling and
Voice Over by Dave Holly
Opening Theme Enhance Your Starry Night by Mouthful of Bees

“For in that sleep of death what dreams may come / When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, / Must give us pause.” – William Shakespeare Hamlet

A near-death experience (NDE) is a personal experience associated with death or impending death. Such experiences may encompass a variety of sensations including detachment from the body, feelings of levitation, total serenity, security, warmth, the experience of absolute dissolution, and the presence of a light. NDEs are a recognized part of some transcendental and religious beliefs in an afterlife.

Different models have been described to explain NDEs. Neuroscience research suggests that an NDE is a subjective phenomenon resulting from “disturbed bodily multisensory integration” that occurs during life-threatening events. Though none of these theories has been proven scientifically.

The Field is also not without it’s hoaxes. In 2015 The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven: A True Story (Published in 2010) By Kevin and Alex Malarkey sparked a massive outcry after it was declared by the author to have been a fabrication, this after selling over one million copies.

(Image Ascent of the Blessed by Hieronymus Bosch is associated by some NDE researchers with aspects of the NDE.)

Common elements
Researchers have identified the common elements that define near-death experiences.[3] Bruce Greyson argues that the general features of the experience include impressions of being outside one’s physical body, visions of deceased relatives and religious figures, and transcendence of ego and spatiotemporal boundaries. Many common elements have been reported, although the person’s interpretation of these events often corresponds with the cultural, philosophical, or religious beliefs of the person experiencing it. For example, in the USA, where 46% of the population believes in guardian angels, they will often be identified as angels or deceased loved ones (or will be unidentified), while Hindus will often identify them as messengers of the god of death.

Common traits that have been reported by NDErs are as follows:

A sense/awareness of being dead.
A sense of peace, well-being, and painlessness. Positive emotions. A sense of removal from the world.
An out-of-body experience. A perception of one’s body from an outside position, sometimes observing medical professionals performing resuscitation efforts.
A “tunnel experience” or entering a darkness. A sense of moving up, or through, a passageway or staircase.
A rapid movement toward and/or sudden immersion in a powerful light (or “Being of Light”) which communicates with the person.
An intense feeling of unconditional love and acceptance.
Encountering “Beings of Light”, “Beings dressed in white”, or similar. Also, the possibility of being reunited with deceased loved ones.
Receiving a life review, commonly referred to as “seeing one’s life flash before one’s eyes”.
Approaching a border or a decision by oneself or others to return to one’s body, often accompanied by a reluctance to return.
Suddenly finding oneself back inside one’s body.

Cross-Cultural Aspects:
Gregory Shushan published an analysis of the afterlife beliefs of five ancient civilizations (Old and Middle Kingdom Egypt, Sumerian and Old Babylonian Mesopotamia, Vedic India, pre-Buddhist China, and pre-Columbian Mesoamerica) and compared them with historical and contemporary reports of near-death experiences, and shamanic afterlife “journeys”. Shushan found similarities across time, place, and culture that he found could not be explained by coincidence; he also found elements that were specific to cultures; Shushan concludes that some form of mutual influence between experiences of an afterlife and culture probably influence one another and that this inheritance, in turn, influences individual NDEs.

According to Parnia, near death experiences’ interpretations are influenced by religious, social, cultural backgrounds. However, the core elements appear to transcend borders and can be considered universal. In fact, some of these core elements have even been reported by children <3 years old (this occurred over many months, whilst playing and communicated using children’s language). In other words, at an age where they should not have been influenced by culture or tradition.

Also, according to Greyson, the central features of NDEs are universal and have not been influenced by time. These have been observed throughout history and in different cultures. This notwithstanding, cultural influences have probably played a role in some NDEs’ reported descriptions.

Lots of Theories
Spiritual or transcendental theories
French summarizes this model by saying: “the most popular interpretation is that the NDE is exactly what it appears to be to the person having the experience”. The NDE would then represent evidence of the supposedly immaterial existence of a soul or mind, which would leave the body upon death. An NDE would then provide information about an immaterial world where the soul would journey upon ending its physical existence on earth.
Some NDE phenomena cannot be easily explained by our current knowledge of human physiology and psychology. For instance, at a time when they were unconscious patients could accurately describe events as well as report being able to view their bodies “from an out-of-body spatial perspective”. In two different studies of patients who had survived a cardiac arrest, those who had reported leaving their bodies could describe accurately their resuscitation procedures or unexpected events, whereas others “described incorrect equipment and procedures”. Sam Parnia also refers to two cardiac arrest studies and one deep hypothermic circulatory arrest study where patients reported visual and/or auditory awareness occurring when their brain function had ceased. These reports “were corroborated with actual and real events”.

Limitations of spiritual or transcendental theories
Five prospective studies have been carried out, to test the accuracy of out of body perceptions by placing “unusual targets in locations likely to be seen by persons having NDEs, such as in an upper corner of a room in the emergency department, the coronary care unit, or the intensive care unit of a hospital.” Twelve patients reported leaving their bodies, but unfortunately, none could describe the hidden visual targets. Although this is a small sample, the failure of purported out-of-body experiences to describe the hidden targets raises questions about the accuracy of the anecdotal reports described above.

Robert’s Note: Lack of large enough data size is a common theme.

Psychologist James Alcock has described the afterlife claims of NDE researchers as pseudoscientific. Alcock has written the spiritual or transcendental interpretation “is based on belief in search of data rather than observation in search of an explanation.” Chris French has noted that “the survivalist approach does not appear to generate clear and testable hypotheses. Because of the vagueness and imprecision of the survivalist account, it can be made to explain any possible set of findings and is therefore unfalsifiable and unscientific.”

Psychological explanations
French summarises the main psychological explanations which include: the depersonalization, the expectancy, and the dissociation models.

Depersonalization model
A depersonalization model was proposed in the 1970s by a professor of psychiatry Russell Noyes and clinical psychologist Roy Kletti, which suggested that the NDE is a form of depersonalization experienced under emotional conditions such as life-threatening danger, potentially inescapable danger and that the NDE can best be understood as a hallucination. According to this model, those who face their impending death become detached from the surroundings and their own bodies, no longer feel emotions, and experience time distortions.

Limitations of the depersonalization model
This model suffers from a number of limitations to explain NDEs for subjects who do not experience a sensation of being out of their bodies; unlike NDEs, experiences are dreamlike, unpleasant and characterized by “anxiety, panic, and emptiness”. Also, during NDEs subjects remain very lucid in their identities, their sense of identity is not changed unlike those experiencing depersonalization.

Expectancy model
Another psychological theory is called the expectancy model. It has been suggested that although these experiences could appear very real, they had actually been constructed in the mind, either consciously or subconsciously, in response to the stress of an encounter with death (or perceived encounter with death), and did not correspond to a real event. In a way, they are similar to wish-fulfillment: because someone thought they were about to die, they experienced certain things in accordance with what they expected or wanted to occur. Imagining a heavenly place was in effect a way for them to soothe themselves through the stress of knowing that they were close to death. Subjects use their own personal and cultural expectations to imagine a scenario that would protect them against an imminent threat to their lives.

Limitations of the expectancy model
Subjects’ accounts often differed from their own “religious and personal expectations regarding death” which contradicts the hypothesis they may have imagined a scenario based on their cultural and personal background.

Although the term NDE was first coined in 1975 and the experience first described then, recent descriptions of NDEs do not differ from those reported earlier than 1975. The only exception is the more frequent description of a tunnel. Hence, the fact that information about these experiences could be more easily obtained after 1975, did not influence people’s reports of the experiences.

Another flaw of this model can be found in children’s accounts of NDEs. These are similar to adults’, and this despite children being less affected by religious or cultural influences about death. See also cross-cultural references.

Dissociation model
The dissociation model proposes that NDE is a form of withdrawal to protect an individual from a stressful event. Under extreme circumstances, some people may detach from certain unwanted feelings in order to avoid experiencing their emotional impact and suffering associated with them. The person also detaches from one’s immediate surroundings.

Birth model
The birth model suggests that near death experiences could be a form of reliving the trauma of birth. Since a baby travels from the darkness of the womb to light and is greeted by the love and warmth of the nursing and medical staff, and so, it was proposed, the dying brain could be recreating the passage through a tunnel to light, warmth, and affection.

Limitations of the birth model
Reports of leaving the body through a tunnel are equally frequent among subjects who were born by cesarean section and natural birth. Also, newborns do not possess “the visual acuity, spatial stability of their visual images, mental alertness, and cortical coding capacity to register memories of the birth experience”.

Physiological explanations (organic theories)
A wide range of physiological theories of the NDE have been put forward including those based upon cerebral hypoxia, anoxia, and hypercapnia; endorphins and other neurotransmitters; and abnormal activity in the temporal lobes.

Neurobiological factors in the experience have been investigated by researchers in the field of medical science and psychiatry. Among the researchers and commentators who tend to emphasize a naturalistic and neurological base for the experience are the British psychologist Susan Blackmore (1993), with her “dying brain hypothesis”.

Neuroanatomical models
Neuroscientists Olaf Blanke and Sebastian Dieguez (2009), from the Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne, Switzerland, propose a brain-based model with two types of NDEs :

“type 1 NDEs are due to bilateral frontal and occipital, but predominantly right hemispheric brain damage affecting the right temporal parietal junction and characterized by out of body experiences, altered sense of time, sensations of flying, lightness section and flying” [6] “type 2 NDEs are also due to bilateral frontal and occipital, but predominantly left hemispheric brain damage affecting the left temporal parietal junction and characterized by a feeling of a presence, meeting and communication with spirits, seeing of glowing bodies, as well as voices, sounds, and music without vection”
They suggest that damage to the bilateral occipital cortex may lead to visual features of NDEs such as seeing a tunnel or lights, and “damage to unilateral or bilateral temporal lobe structures such as the hippocampus and amygdala” may lead to emotional experiences, memory flashbacks or a life review. They concluded that future neuroscientific studies are likely to reveal the neuroanatomical basis of the NDE which will lead to the demystification of the subject without needing paranormal explanations.

Animation of the human left temporal lobe
French has written that the “temporal lobe is almost certain to be involved in NDEs, given that both damage to and direct cortical stimulation of this area are known to produce a number of experiences corresponding to those of the NDE, including OBEs, hallucinations, and memory flashbacks”.

Vanhaudenhuyse et al. 2009 reported that recent studies employing deep brain stimulation and neuroimaging have demonstrated that out-of-body experiences result from a deficient multisensory integration at the temporoparietal junction and that ongoing studies aim to further identify the functional neuroanatomy of near-death experiences by means of standardized EEG recordings.

According to Greyson multiple neuroanatomical models have been proposed where NDEs have been hypothesized to originate from different anatomical areas of the brain, namely: the limbic system, the hippocampus, the left temporal lobe, Reissen’s fiber in the central canal of the spinal cord, the prefrontal cortex, the right temporal lobe.

Limits of neuroanatomical models
Blanke et al. admit that their model remains speculative to the lack of data. Likewise Greyson writes that although some or any of the neuroanatomical models proposed may serve to explain NDEs and pathways through which they are expressed, they remain speculative at this stage since they have not been tested in empirical studies.

Neurochemical models
Some theories hypothesize that drugs used during resuscitation induced NDEs, for example, ketamine or as resulting from endogenous chemicals that transmit signals between brain cells, neurotransmitters:

In the early eighties, Daniel Carr wrote that NDE has characteristics are suggestive of a limbic lobe syndrome and that the NDE can be explained by the release of endorphins and enkephalins in the brain.[59][60] Endorphins are endogenous molecules “released in times of stress and lead to a reduction in pain perception and a pleasant, even blissful, emotional state.”

Judson and Wiltshaw (1983) noted how the administration of endorphin-blocking agents such as naloxone had been occasionally reported to produce “hellish” NDEs. This would be coherent with endorphins’ role in causing a “positive emotional tone of most NDEs”.
Morse et al. 1989 proposed a model arguing that serotonin played a more important role than endorphins in generating NDEs “at least with respect to mystical hallucinations and OBEs”.
Limits of neurochemical models
According to Parnia, neurochemical models are not backed by data. This is true for “NMDA receptor activation, serotonin, and endorphin release” models. Parnia writes that no data has been collected via thorough and careful experimentation to back “a possible causal relationship or even an association” between neurochemical agents and NDE experiences.

Multi-factorial models
The first formal neurobiological model for NDE, included endorphins, neurotransmitters of the limbic system, the temporal lobe and other parts of the brain. Extensions and variations of their model came from other scientists such as Louis Appleby (1989).

Other authors suggest that all components of near-death experiences can be explained in their entirety via psychological or neurophysiological mechanisms, although the authors admit that these hypotheses have to be tested by science.

Low oxygen levels (and G-LOC) model
Low oxygen levels in the blood (hypoxia or anoxia) have been hypothesized to induce hallucinations and hence possibly explain NDEs.[14][5] This is because low oxygen levels characterize life-threatening situations and also by the apparent similarities between NDEs and G-force induced loss of consciousness (G-LOC) episodes.

These episodes are observed with fighter pilots experiencing very rapid and intense acceleration that result in lack of sufficient blood supply to the brain. Whinnery[66] studied almost 1000 cases and noted how the experiences often involved “tunnel vision and bright lights, floating sensations, automatic movement, autoscopy, OBEs, not wanting to be disturbed, paralysis, vivid dreamlets of beautiful places, pleasurable sensations, psychological alterations of euphoria and dissociation, inclusion of friends and family, inclusion of prior memories and thoughts, the experience being very memorable (when it can be remembered), confabulation, and a strong urge to understand the experience.”

Limitations of low oxygen levels (and G-LOC) model
However, hypoxia-induced acceleration primary characteristics are “rhythmic jerking of the limbs, compromised memory of events just prior to the onset of unconsciousness, tingling of extremities …” that are not observed during NDEs. Also G-LOC episodes do not feature life reviews, mystical experiences and “long-lasting transformational after effects”, although this may be due to the fact that subjects have no expectation of dying.

Also, hypoxic hallucinations are characterized by “distress and agitation” and this is very different from near death experiences which subjects report as being pleasant.

Altered blood gas levels models and their limitations
Some investigators have studied whether hypercarbia or higher than normal carbon dioxide levels, could explain the occurrence of NDEs. However, studies are difficult to interpret since NDEs have been observed both with increased levels as well as decreased levels of carbon dioxide, and finally some other studies have observed NDEs when levels had not changed, and there is little data.



Machine Transcript
[0:27] Fourteen that’s the death what dreams may come. When we have shuffled off this mortal coil must give us pause william shakespeare hamlet. [0:39] Hey everybody welcome to macabre mark chapter nine in your hoe siri show here with my fellow co host river mailing and travis ny and this episode we’re going to be talking about, near death experiences. That kinda makes sense on the internet that’s kinda depressing that i’m even reading it or hearing you read um like. Weather sprite down a grandma for uniden often should diagram having and have a near death experience and she’s actually still alive but it’s coming out there is there a. Prepare for it i did will you be sure close enough. [1:25] So yeah so near death experience for those for the uninitiated is a personal experience associated with death or impending death, such experiences main purpose of riley sensations including detachment from the body feelings of levitation total serenity security wharf. [1:45] Experience of absolute disillusion and the presence of light. Near death experiences of recognize as part of a trans and as part of some transcendental and religious beliefs in the after life. Cuz often these near death experiences will it will get to that will actually reflect the. What while they we will reflect the religion of the person having the experience but the same time there’s a whole bunch of universal light beats or themes in and you’re gonna is that like every culture has but it. But it’s interesting so as as we go here at the other thing is that i’m run down some different models of when used to describe it any decent you spite. There’s really no real science tried suggests. A subjective explanation for what causes and any and in d and. You know there’s a lot of the series and they sound very scientific, however i would be quick to point out that none of them have ever been and actually inmate in my digging here fully like scientifically proven or bend light fully repeatable in a study where you could assist billy consistently be like. Oh this is not or this is definitely what causes it right he can’t that spirit ex just think. Campus hearing about the section of the an interesting topic because i’m right now i’m researching for my on. [3:12] Production things that kinda induce fear moons little be good that death is a big catch all for a lot of that the. And in this field is not without its hoaxes cuz ie i tend to be very open minded about these flight always keeping mines that. They are con artists out there the most famous one and most recent one that i know of is from in twenty fifteen the boy who came back from having a true story published in twenty ten k and alex malarkey now and you know it says a true story that their trying to like get you to leave them no his last name is malarkey popping up on the last me until just now sent that seven hours until i was reading it out loud and now down to see the note to read it out loud like holy crap their names are even malarkey spurs happens first came out i was late in the story roll as it only got that how did you not know that this is the. Because of their last name and the to the whole thing that they have that they actually put in their true story booze. [4:16] Coming publisher tactic loosely well also what kind of my thing to is like is this true i’m telling you the truth that you have to believe me believe me yes okay let’s go there now but i know where you’re getting that from yes thats so there’s there’s a common illness near death experiences. Research survey identify the common elements that the fight in years experience. And the general features include impressions of the one else outside was physical body visions of deceased relatives and religious figures. [4:52] Transcendence or eat got take erotica he got it or species special temp oral boundaries thank you your welcome i get words. [5:02] I am not looking where they should’ve expresso he bet many common elements have been reported although a person’s interpretation of these vents often corresponds with their cultural philosophical religious police experiencing, for example in the usa were forty six percent of the population please a guardian angels they will often be identified as angels or deceased loved ones. Where is he news will often identify the in figures that are with them as messengers of the god of death when. [5:33] So here’s here’s the like beat laundry list of common things not now there is no hard fast rule because i i read through a whole bunch of this and it don’t roll like you to experience is. And a lot of them have missing a few of them but hear some like be points seem to correspond with a whole crap load of them. A sensor awareness of being debt since of peace wellbeing pain was this possible motions innocent of removal from the world. An out of body experience is really coming but it will get two in one of the explanations is not always the case light at sea. The total experience this is the one that in the picture were gonna use for this episode as a painting by our monia squash. Percent of the blasted that has a you know a deceased person traveling through a tunnel of light and it is. [6:29] Dead on what i think of when i think of the the tunnel be like traveling through and i even seen is used in like different religious. Things and stuff like that describing what the total would be like um. So that’s that painting is really on top part with the tunnels what we use for the tunnel and that bright light in the warm light being a good safe place. And being at peace is super common thread of any these are eighties part me from. Yeah encountering beans of all of light that kept our possibly deceased love ones. Receiving error yet receiving will life review commonly ss refer to as seen one’s life flash before one’s eyes now this one in particular wanted to know because. [7:21] My great grandfather had a near death experience all. And getting getting into will we get the explanations and some serious about what costs these this is part of what throws off the cultural inference theory, where it’s like people hear about incident that in handling alien abductions well, once those happened like almost and am pretty describe the grace of lee everyone describes their italians like something in. Where as with near death experiences they were not get i’m getting ahead of us but we were really covered in depth until like the seventies was like seventy five of the first. Major article about this national in some bomb but my great great grandfather. He was fishing on lake in minnesota and they were using it this was about like the twenty’s or earlier and they were fishing in a lake with dynamite. [8:13] And if so what they’re doing is it taking stick of dynamite dynamite with long fuse the stick in a jar and with a rock and then they throw it off and you know that so they were fishing. Had he was the only one in this group of like four people that can’t swim so he jumped of the boat and swim out he gather all the fishing from the boat. [8:32] Well they had one that didn’t go off that was like a daughter whatever and so they waited and waited and was like i guess it’s not all off so then they set off another one he jumped in the water. M and the first one the three late earlier one went off while he was in the war lasted a mouse and it’s is and the only things either as i was super young but i tune in at my dads recall that stuff is just like. [8:58] One of the things we are member was in top you must like that thing they say about your life flashing before your eyes and floating and all that is like it’s true. Sec i saw everything i saw when i was little kid and and my mom and dad and. He saw relatives that were like long passes of like that yet so he had a really in depth wall sprite did, with all these full marks that were talking about yeah wave of and this is not a guy who was like super following the media or anything like that. I just this is a super world farm kit from doing busy doing his own thing and living his life like barely pay attention anybody and and not like a science fiction person or even novel reader is so it’s like. [9:41] You know where what you’ve got nice ideas from but this is you know like what but he reported to us and com right here someone say your life flashes before your eyes i do think of. [9:52] The other thing is that he’s the one i name for this is robert richard bailey of the first one all. [10:00] So what is approaching border or a decision by oneself and, others report that they are forced return their body often accompanied by a reluctance to return their body like it’s not time yet there’s a place i’ve actually heard of this you when people are doing past life regression xp young men if you also regressed to a soul level which is like one step beyond just going to pass but they are actually going to like, the actual soulmate where your soul exists and people have reported that, there’s that leftist return because they’re in such an area just like you for a in peace, that to return back to your body impact your own consciousness is very difficult because you don’t want to leave that. So i had a friend that she does that as for her for a living and she had, she had one client where it was hard to get her to come back and she was actually like legitimately scared that this woman wasn’t gonna be able to come back and her body is. Well paso yeah it’s yeah. [11:04] Let c and another one is than the sudden the experience of some refining yourself back in siting here your body. Getting in to some the cultural aspects we talked about earlier, this great curry shoes shoe shan publish an analysis after like leaves from five different inch civilization ss old and middle can me gypsum area all babylonian mesopotamia, that in the previous china and pri columbia ms america. Compare them with historical and contemporary reports of near death experiences and shah matic after life journeys. [11:41] Says he found similarities across time place and culture that cannot be explained by when since he also found elements that were specific to cultures. He concludes that some form from the mutual influence between experiences of an after life and culture and probably influence one another. Through you know what they inherit and internal influences in their individual on near death experiences so i guess that it slaughter the wording of that. [12:11] Basically take way there is that you know someone from india my see agents of the god of death someone from america my see guardian angels, but they’re still gonna have those common hallmarks rate very strangely consistently across the board services a lot what i experience in like my line of work is that everybody has these identifiers of things but essentially their disturb the same thing as is the title that you give to it in the mean that you get to it so now so i what you sell a defy somebody in like you know india will sail this is like the god of death where is like somebody americans will ask my guardian angel but they are essentially the same, being is what they’re talking about us just the title that you give to it and so even like what i do some of the work that i you know when i’m like interpreting like signs and symbols you now its hard to like it’s like i’m seeing. Like a pitchfork i’m trying to put my own meaning to a pitchfork behind ability you ate that you understand what it means you know like it just i don’t have like. [13:15] Fuck was that what was were looking for like of reference point, to like to like relate to it and as i don’t know when c and light is is a pitchfork really think know at the trident you know any might, that’s the house like people like relay the different things that just be sanyo might experiences this is how they are experiencing is that’s why i think a lot of people are like, it’s like such a religious experience for them but it’s it was me and i think people are experiencing the same thing this is what, they are defining for themselves based on their life experiences. [13:47] Days tell you just steven knows your he should just do like a blog like an ink blot test but only showing like the real tangible items to see how people translate them i should i should. Show like an outline of a car and see how people write ray translate that are sump oh yeah yeah like i had a reading of a couple days ago and i saw in my vision like in my mind i saw truck, i should’ve specified pickup truck right not just said truck and i specifically sought pickup truck and i don’t know why i didn’t say it how i side in the eye that. Difference of me just saying truck and not specifying. Was meant alot more to the sitter then it did it to me so i shouldn’t specifically said pickup truck and then shooting like in gas so yeah it’s so funny how people are just so lake. [14:43] W two glasses so crazy. [14:47] Yeah leaves me scratching my head cuz i just really truck you know mic checker thinking ten or so i track you know. We depend on the context but if it was you or out on a farm and it was like harvest season or something i be like pickup truck while you reading three and i’m like okay super anal haven’t you his email series crossed over you know and it in and so, he’s your son he’s been gone for a long time any diet need a quick leave you get all of my grandfather say okay please show me a picture of a truck and you would think. [15:19] Mrs patsy so it was like that and so there’s no to the mike so that’s kind of. Sorry tangent nola school. Soon there are a lot of the reason so i have lots of notes of them here but we’re gonna really like give you quick fly over version of them to some of them are really get into the weeds and really exhaustive but. Like i said none of them have been like explicitly proven out the first areas obviously the spiritual one in which you know people say is like maybe it’s an out of body experience or know people actually seeing you know the after life. And is the a c. [16:03] They’re van five different studies on this year here’s the limitations with that one as to five different cities have been carried out to test the accuracy of the out of body experience morons with this is what you were talking about re in the messenger um. [16:18] Where they would give unusual all targets in locations that were only someone who was having like an and de would be able to see like up by the ceiling and stuff like that but clocks and weird signs and trinkets and stuff because we. [16:32] But they would use a during surgery off at, they will just have these items in the surgical operating room up above the lights so bare theory is that if you were spirit is going to physically float outside of your body, then if you were you if your spirit is floating up above, then you should be able to have a different perspective on the room because a lot of people report being able to see the perspective of like the surgery and might what’s going on in the room and had a different for spec of but there’s no way to prove it’s a lonely approval would be to put something that order out of place in an area that nobody else can see and look a place to do that is on top of the lights so then they would place like clock they would place is it just different eyeball things are signs and stuff of them they would ask these individuals hopefully they would know check spirit james yeah yeah and so then they that well did you but what else did you see like them and that they didn’t describe that particular object than that will. And this is a predator your take me as a if they didn’t say that particular opulent i saw pink bubble than that all the niggas your whole experience bullshit they better really happen like your just fabricating that based off but be what you see on tv and there are some researchers in here that were like super careful those like not say that that’s right don’t dismiss near death experience even if it’s. [17:55] Even if is a product purely of like internally of your minds kosher like. It shouldn’t be dismissed just because of that it’s not what super profound experience and have a major profound impact on the have them. And then so like we did the experiment you were talking about where they had twelve patients reported leaving their bodies in that then those surgeries. But unfortunately none of them to describe the visual targets although, this is a small sample failure of the ported out of body experiences to describe the hidden targets raise questions about the accuracy of the and it don’t reports describe buff. And might know here is that you obviously twelve people is not a scientific. Say is not simple my papers by doe means that but it but it is interesting that you know that they did not see it. And that and we’ll get to that later there’s one more report where they get a study worth like half the people. That describe the surgery go have like from outside of their body half of them got right what equipment was being used on them glass half of them didn’t. Um let’s see so. [19:12] Yet their there’s a lot of people who dismiss and de researchers as pseudo scientific and they are there beat worry there is which obviously is like confirmation bias to nothing works like were there looking for. [19:26] A destination and then how can i make the data get me to that destination which is a problem um. And something else i was hearing about this something is listed on the radio it wasn’t about near death experiences but was talking about something just like this i know i was reading phenomenon by. Same woman that wrote like area fifty one and a few other of books that i’ve referenced before that are like very good books on like this topic and she was talking about how it now this book. In particular was about like an okay i’ll try and like remove center and set the biggest thing that the department of defense had trouble with. In their research was that the only people they can find are either a. True believers who have just like ridiculously bad confirmation bias all the pentagon officials at this point i don’t know if i trust their data. And then. [20:24] The it’s like there’s only them and then there’s diehard skeptics were just like i won’t even entertain this i wont write a paper about i want to study about it because it’s ridiculous i won’t even entertain it and so the pentagon s like. So how do we test they said it has either you won’t touch it or you’ll get all over it and then numbness at yeah yeah. And i i feel like, a little bit of that with this we’re just cool like because it’s such a hot button and controversial it this like you got researchers who are super super late oh this is definitely a thing yet and it is amazing above and then you’ve got people who are just like will no matter what it has to be. You know it has to be on their head all day i just need to figure out how it’s all in there at the seams like both of pics the destination not defy the data back devestation. [21:17] Is not good science not awful and so. Oh you know getting into the signs little bit here there’s a bunch of psychological explanations and all the scientific explanations i found a lot of these to be the. The weakest tom cuz like the personal is personal station model doesn’t really work that great because i. People that suffer then usually. It’s very unpleasant anxiety panic emptiness stuff like that was in the user basically the exact on the door at from yeah. [21:52] Um that see expectancy model this is the one i talked about a little bit with my great grandfather all year, it just like it’s wish fulfillment or they probably read from outside sources about and yes but you look at somebody like from each some area are my grandfather in the twat nineteen twenties or great grandfather that he twenties and, it’s like these guys were not you know like sitting around watching leonard special leonard mean weight my search of about near death experiences. This is not in their wheelhouse ray that see. [22:29] So we took cover when basically it’s me like of anybody’s like super duper religious there’s and they make top on your experience of height i don’t know about you but i’m camel and a little bit quick to dismiss like there experience, just because i pay i think they want so badly to see angel’s, because like they need a physical confirmation that that but they held so dearly to their hearts their entire life their religion that they follow to a t the date now that they have six pairs i’ve seen angels kike have you or are you very sure you are experiencing some sort of like optional or you know phenomenon in, and that’s where i get a little bit suspicious that the sooner somebody mentions jesus am i am out. The stunning friendly so that i think that’s pretty significant. [23:16] But that’s another psychological what is that this association model which is just that something bad is happening see your mind is distracted disassociate from it. [23:27] I found this wanna be super weak and and dollar to give like a counter argument is is it so like. [23:35] It’s just in my eyes will be the saying oh used the word do this other rain in this out thought science now ray what bright. And in lake perth model which is saying that like the tunnel and the lights are, it’s like your dying brain is trying to re imagine birth like most dramatic big thing to happen to you but as many people will point out or, i’m on other things like with c sections a bunch of other stuff, you wouldn’t have the experience that you don’t actually remember it’s in general area i did they talk about is article talk about the shutting down of the accesible loving like white was he a tunnel of light and that’s why you see light. [24:15] I remember hearing about the little bit i don’t know that will make it more it to the white jump on if you’re not in there will get these are the psychological was always ira to get more to like a chemical reaction and okay chemical components. [24:30] So the physiological ones so so mute. Yeah oh my god senior st is a lot of black and sebastian d the glass as it doesn’t in from the cold poly tech be there eyelid day lasso on switzerland propose of bream braced my with two types of and the ease. Thank you um so there’s one this due to the bilateral frontal accidental but. Primarily right hemisphere brett see you were getting into the weeds here but basically there’s talk about this. [25:06] Go for it okay so okay so type one and either due to bilateral frontal and accidental see your frontal lobes like right up in your biz right on the front of your forehead your simple as write the backlight refill bobbing the back your head so you put your hand on the back your head you can actually feel, that bob your side and i am a very loud vibrating stuff, i had three channels all one word other network news about predominately right hemisphere brain damage affecting the right temp or upper right all junction so if you wanna put your hand on the right hand it on the right side of your brain or reset your head and characterized by out of body experiences altered since the times and seasons applying light does vaction in playing so the right side of your brain is a part of you that’s like very imaginative and creative, and so it that it’s basically all of your senses and that’s why you feel that alton the time is in station the flying exeter center so that’s why they’re trying to categorize it into that category of experiences the type shoes of near death experiences are also due to bilateral frontal and the village is basically the from your in the back your brain so the from your brain processes is. [26:12] Oh i ask as a result of thinking in the back your brain is it is how you see so like these two are kind of like, and like they’re kinda conf looking right now but predominantly left canister access like your thinking side air vents think that but how you think and how you process like i am. More physical part of yourself so they’re talking about. Then the talking about c here of affection left trail junction character is a feeling a presence meeting and communications spirit singing line bodies lol voices sounds unfamiliar. Music without vaction so that’s kinda like how you experience and how you see things, and so that’s so like the so you’re basically your brain is is having like this moment of just like this incredible dislike electrical storm is going on inside and that’s how they’re trying to on scientifically classified, these experiences so looking overload between for and yeah yep and so bad that’s kinda why there saying like that i believe, in what you’re saying it has happened cuba hear the scientific explanation what’s going on in your brain and why you think that so lot scientists will say that like me and what i do is basically my brain. Bel functioning and like that’s why you still like you have feelings that you know things are your communicating spirit that everything but there’s also there’s also a large part of it to where it’s unexplainable. [27:35] So then do i use plaster of years of so they suggest that damage to the bilateral accesible court or text may lead to visit and at the optical cord taxes actually outside of your simple or text in the back your bring lily to visual features of near death experiences such as seeing tunnel or lights damage to you lara bilateral temp for a little structures that’s on the side your head like by your years, answer to the hippocampus and a middle leslie hippocampus actually goes over the top section of your brain and nigga left me gosh i’m having fun having a brain fart shop maly to motion experiences memory flash better life or life reviews so you’re hippocampus is actually, um like how you feel experience things and that’s why and it’s affecting that would explain it that way the concluded that future do scientific studies are likely to reveal the nero anatomical basis of the md which will lead to the d miseducation of the subject without needing paranormal aspect explanation so they’re trying to say basically like this is how zions explain that so juss gg fl but hot but, you still have like well you know we kind of exit like we are all energetic bodies and our enter your energy experiences life in different ways than just scientific off so you can say that yes like science has an explanation but, there’s also you know your energy of your person and they never been able to like. [29:02] Prove it i can conclusively and allow trigger this and what exactly ethical reason exactly exactly trigger this and then no okay that’s clearly what’s right. [29:11] Let’s see this summer so. [29:19] Some of limitations of the narrator michael model. Is that your mean spec okay what we were just saying it ruing speculative because there’s a lack of data right. Op rights although some of the new roll up your room near near anatomical models, propose bay servant to explain indies and pathway through which they expressed their main speculative at the state since i have not been tested with empirical studies. So yeah so yeah and we get in to the neuro chemical one which i thought there’s one of these that i’m looking for that was interesting. [29:56] You know sot there was this the talk about the indoor fans being releases stuff like that they get into the problem with that is that, it would produce a lot more negative, hallucinations and then what and he is ten right right to be here for all of purses lake panic and pain yup. [30:17] Policy and then there’s like a park ca and i see like low oxygen level based when gas. The multi fact role as they they just mention it could be some of the stuff combine with some of physical neurological straightest combine with the psychological right. [30:34] Hmm let’s see so yeah that the high park see a thing because through that because. [30:40] They talked about all these test cases that they’ve done with pilots and what pilot physically experience is nothing like it and the as far as like rather than being sri and colder usually like flailing around like seizure in his when they have it. So yeah so they’re not sure on that one and yeah it same thing that i just said this britain there. [31:04] Alter blood gas levels it’s difficult to interpret sins and the zip have been observed bowl of with increased levels and decrease levels of carbon dioxide so yeah so that gas levels thing is really hard for them to. To measure to pinpoint and then, yeah yes so basically like science is trying to bring you down from trying to say the word that you met jesus and he came back to tell to tell you a story, no about it in the hazard those the explanations or the thames and explanations are the best they can come up with greatly fight you guys mentioned you had some. Possible stories or things with near death experiences here sevenths yeah yeah okay yeah there was a is okay in handcuffs hundred aircraft carrier in a barrel, trying to this skate yes that’s exactly what it was robert that is amazing. Nigga said did not survive that one so if she so here i am in my near death. Experience floating in particular you looking for goes you know i don’t really wrinkle in ages much anymore it’s good yeah translate hydrated but can’t hold anything is false yeah so anyway my near death experience. [32:21] I consider new does experience cuz like died so that’s new does right okay yeah so is more like a in the moment thing like i don’t really have a huge recollection of the in between from beginning to end of. All i know is is doing demolition work in milwaukee where down town and there’s this huge like six story building. [32:45] And we’re basically getting the interior which happened and in the two walls with taken out on the exterior so just a huge. At this point we guide on like three stories as a three story l shape ascension the corner and whenever they do construction like than a big city they put this huge like a foot fence around the perimeter the sidewalks people don’t walk by right direction so i was in there and my bosses super tight and we’re just picking bricks that were still good to pallet eyes and sell yeah yeah okay so we’re doing that and the guy running excuse me to swing the bucket and hit the wall and like all this dust fell on me and in the wall sure point am i watch it bud like that is no joke you need to be careful yeah so like twenty mins later he did it again and the walls swing super hard and i’m like maybe five feet away from it so i took off in a dead sprint, in the walking completely collapsed and i have no idea how to do this i got some white guy and like somehow i is not a fast runner let’s just let’s keep this pc and it another says earning a high jumper, so let’s say like i clear this eight foot fence in time that actually pushed the fence out she and i rode the fence industry while also like. [34:08] However tall a three story building is right like il ran it before it collapsed game so that’s like a matter of like five seconds, is that the acid is like sixty feet in five seconds like i was a ten second car ray her leg but in that time period like. [34:25] Do your like i have no recollection of like what my physical body had done. I like that me all i remember is it like starting class to crumbling noise and then i’m on the fence and huge like does cloud so’s lily like your fire flight. [34:41] Really. Flighted right let’s say if i offer my life it’s a little more sq your kindness system chicken and basically your survival instinct was just like yeah let’s go duke and, but you’re jalen isms and they got you at the right so the guy with the loader that hit are any other people or they hurt no he wasn’t her cuz of course the wall fill outwards towards my direction which the smart move would’ve been run for the because there’s a garage door that was no longer there, that i could just bypass the but of course my mind is like lets run towards the collapsing wall was running away from it and. So that was definitely like i’ve had a couple other crazy experiences but that is definitely one that stands out my mind is like i physically feel like my body took over and i just kinda blacked out from it. Like it was he has no recollection of like we’re consciousness wasn’t that point yeah like i’m just like, girl and just kinda took over like it’s it’s kinda crazy but i don’t really have the flashbacks and stuff because i really feel like it wasn’t me that made my body. Take off oh interesting that you even think it was like my my would a never said i you run and you take two steps make sure shuffle real quick so i get to jump position and then clear that fence interest my my would have been like yeah i’m screwed us over don’t make it to the fence and no way my mind is set like going over that since the. Well that’s and that’s interesting yeah. [36:08] And your site nice service experience years i now i live i guess the pleasure and tell those to the till somebody else my tail that’s crazy yeah i’m and now. [36:21] That was like browse at your buzz you actually see yourself outside your body, no doing miss you have any communication with anybody was just like all the sudden you have this altered state of consciousness for you just burnt i was on the vents when is done so i know what it yeah while, my tuesday is crazy for sure. [36:42] Have you tried like bingo red events stephanie is like psychological experiences will eat your brain basically just like shuts off it’s recording mechanism yeah just goes into like it goes into a mode and just like you have no recollection of like. And yeah i mean cuz it wasn’t you know like, an open field for me to run on like there a place to rubble that i would end of life right over there a issues a perfectly made like, running reminisces see you actually like sprinter like there doesn’t mean handle leg after the dust settle like traffic had stopped obviously cuz i mean and yeah the big city yeah in like everybody’s a out of the car looking at me right like are you okay and then my dad was icsi where he’s a good my does does sound see me there and then he went after the guy running the machine so yeah like i was like holy crap so. [37:36] Canadian things exercise so as possible this is kind of. Find interpretation of it i think that maybe is like a wrinkle in time of i think i night crawler didn’t right that’s why and right i’m gonna go with that cuz nba yeah actually. Nice yeah. [37:54] The not so odd numbers you you don’t know how it happened allison you’re point eight point be like people totally doing a form of like time travel were like basically time actually stretches out orbitz or basically gets quicker so like this times and you can do this like we’re going to work even like there is so like i really wanna get to work on time is a snow storm i pad and i left at my normal time and these are the snow that we had it would’ve taken me an extra five to ten minutes to get there i actually write an extra ten minutes ahead of than my normal tia when i left at my regular times it was just like. I didn’t speed i was driving slower but yet i still arrive ten minutes ahead of time so laying ow hole that happens of maybe something like that was less traffic. No nope it was a it was in the scientific robert okay but when laying are moments there’s no on i don’t know that i don’t make it ten antennas hat i’m always act right at. The buzzard or a little bit because are you now so that’s maybe that’s one way to think of it the girl fight this it just tossing it out there. [39:08] Some near death experiences arie do you have any i don’t have any and the east i have a meditation experiences where i felt like outside of my body which is more like the actual production wishes come with roof already covered episode one in case you are interested or chapter one sorry anyways i did read it i have read quite a few books though on people’s own experiences and just notice like common themes as far as like experiences that they have and it’s like you know all the thread count and to hold hands and i don’t think that this is like. One particular religious experience for person it’s i think is a common theme or all kind of going to the same places just your life experiences defining what is it you’re seem so two books i read when i am. Were on heaven is for real which i don’t wish even after million with it’s basically about how this little boy at four years old um medias three does that his degree way she ended irate. [40:13] Um he has like this massive infection from appendicitis and he’s in the hospital and he ends up. Dying for a little while on the operating table. Well then his dad they they the parents don’t know at this point time that he is deceased. So he just starts the parents are just like, praying at the deli praying praying praying this pray to god say my please to bring my son back please please please now here’s the this is where this the father what he does for living he’s a pastor so it’s kinda late mom as a kind of weird about anyways. [40:53] And the little boy actually gets is revived and he’s he makes out of surgery any actually as of friday he’s like and he’s probably fifteen years old right now so i am. After this after this experience in the hospital but the doctors. Don’t say that don’t think like he clinically died but like the little boy was definitely outside of his body because the little boy later mentions about how he went to meet jesus and how about what heaven looks like and his like mention this in bits and pieces and the dad is this as is the china story says about how you super careful to not like. Guide him in the story telling like that to like plant stuff than you like ms remember i mistake things is always is always whenever he rip out of this you just let let’s kick talk cell. [41:42] What kind of like figure out so what the little boy says he says isi you on your knees in this room and like he described the room praying to jesus that, that i would be that i would be safe in that’s when jesus told me that i needed to go back to my body and back tomorrow to tune a mommy daddy and so he was just like there’s no way, that his son would have even known about that because of what why would you tell your three year old a four year old son that by the way i was in the waiting room praying for you to play come back yeah the crazy thing that tell them that because the first thing that comes to the shit out of them seven holder not gonna understand and they might understand a little bit but not, you know to the extent so and he also mentioned he knew about that there was. [42:30] A year but they had had their pregnant they miscarry and so when he got to have them will he gets hundred away by this girl who is having its okay she just so happy to see him and she is like dark curly hair and describes girl in full detail and then that’s and she said that she was her sister and he’s these like, i don’t have a sister like i don’t have an older sister is have me on my other you know sister whatever and like they’ve never told him that. You know that they had a child at the miscarry to there’s like little things like here and there that late there’s no way that he could’ve known as such a young age and the other thing like he describes that is consistent with other people and it had like, have experiences like what jesus actually looks like so there’s this painter who she was and her team that she had she had expense for she’s, set you would have a whatever the painting about what jesus looks like yes so is like kind of interesting floats that’s apple and then the other one i read was ninety minutes in heaven. [43:33] Play again and the guys a pastor and he is the car acts and and like he’s actually dead like on the scene of a car accident do look into the hi eve risk lifestyles of the pastors who is a danger zone baby using his potty basin so basically he’s, is pronounced dead on the scene and they have a blue tarp over his car and everything but because he was like coming to or going to you up we’ll say a pastor convention because of that other, that’s what i was going to whistles every tree revenge of a passenger there when the. Person’s going to the convention recognized his car because they were good friends in the end he he pulled over and demanded, to the empty staff like i need to pray over my friends body like i just need to understand his deceased but it’s my job to minister to him so they allowed to go into the car and be with ham and pray over his body and he pray, furiously he says for like arrow twenty thirty minutes is costly just praying as hard as he cut and then all the sudden. He comes back to life which is lake. [44:39] Impressive i think i’m not a doctor but it sounds impressive and then he he explain like his whole experience to how he side no, old people that hassan they’re happy c and the angels voices the singing exeter etc, i’m describing things that like he could out of notable you know without being there so sd this is kind of interesting those experiences so the other couple books you can probably. Check-in to but. [45:06] That sent the plane so it almost like to say when i was younger like three years old yeah i kinda had an out of body experience similar to what we’re talking about. Because it’s because in at a previous chapter talked about like re occurring dreams and dream interpretation but this is actually a dream. That i had re occurring over and over yeah but it’s so real. We’re basically i seen a tollway this case of the yoyo traveling on the floor and rolling string leaving a trail of do you string me and leading into my room why can’t we would see myself and what i was doing and stuff that moment but i tell this to my parents and all originated because again i remember the house and like we moved out of there when your three and i get like. Get is details like the pictures on the wall like the color card where the furniture and everything like my toilet like my entire room layout the entire house to teach perfect detail. And without ever having photos of this room rating like that and is that three year old mind that you’ll still remembers the stingray and that’s honestly my interpretation of the near death experience like, the out of body and everything like that is to me it’s almost more scientific is the fact that you know this goes back to me being younger and thinking i could make. [46:26] Power energy balls can i resign yeah exactly and i remember one of the things that is reading like when i dial up internet and wait forever for document alone is very valuable information cuz i didn’t wanna hit refresh. [46:38] That you know all these powers abilities were more capable of happening when you younger because your mind is more open to the saying. But i also think in a stressful situation such as a near death experience your mind reverse that primitive thinking to the flyer for fight or flight scenario timing, but also goes back to you know like your mind is more capable opening up and using higher percentage of its abilities to. See exactly what’s going on around you that’s why and honestly for like my greeting and stuff like that no effect because i think if you’ve trained long enough that your your mind is capable of doing it because we don’t know what the full capabilities of, the human mind is crazy out whenever i go through like training train glasses for psychic stuff that sounds really when you go to jail what i do is talk about using your child like mining using your resignation cuz when you use your imagination that’s when you’re able to tappan them or those things, and it’s list there’s less judgement and that’s how you can kind of. Yeah like no very make ceasing it’s a major don’t try to bend the spoon that’s impossible, if i can only realize there is no spring in if already band to this room mortgage is it that of. Who is siri will see you now have a mini oracle seen yeah. [48:02] So yeah that was chapter nine near death experiences once again just a reminder to everybody that you know fee if your fancy by this topic are you got your own experience that you wanna share be sure to comment on your post on the sioux empire dot com or the facebook page we’d love to hear from you and hear about your stories on this and what what you think about this cuz this is a very interesting open-ended thing that get in touch a lot of people and i’m super curious about what’s out there it wasn’t as a message every year thing kinda shy yeah absolutely you could send us a email or message or whatever if you don’t wanna, communicate open like that yeah and one more thing yeah actually okay so if you have a spooky experience with ghosts out experience anything that like hat ever happened to you and it doesn’t have to be on the top of the of the of the episode that read it on please send it to us cuz i would love to read it on the episode and like share it no absolutely and you want to zero go after you ago an actual interview to be awesome yeah to welcome guests yeah they live or free recorded yeah whatever. Or if your dad and you just need to sent you know if you need to do an interview via wi tube or we can set that all is a sweetie thing today i’ll sell ya the air will talk about another episode. [49:21] The best we g thing you say that like it’s like is this nonsense like, i saw this thing he barrera was as again in hashtag re ge in your favorites for surge noise should be the, nice in one thinks everyone have a great week and we’ll see you next time.
About the Author
Macabre Grimoire is a podcast of paranormal and mystery exploration. Psychic/medium Ari Show, magician Travis Nye, and historian Robert Mehling delve into the dark places where mysteries go unsolved, events go unexplained, and the line between legend and fact becomes obscured. Whether you're a skeptic, believer or something in between, the Macabre Grimoire will change the way you see the world.